I saved it, thought I'd post it, since these are discussions that very much continue in our public discourse in America right now, in light of the protests.
:)
And in response: [quote=steven_h;19005621]And there's the steriotypical reference to Beck. What would people like you do without Bush and Beck to lean on. Could you ever imagine that people are born with the ability to call an apple rotten without help from anyone else? You are confusing a closed mind with one that hasn't been brainwashed. You've lost the entire perspective of thinking for yourself and exclaim how everyone else has a closed mind? Really? That's why you believe if a conservative is saying it, then it must be something they heard from Beck or Hannity or FOX or, or or... anything but their own opinions. What a concept it must be to hear that most conservatives don't really care what Beck, or FOX might have to say.
And to that I say: (((((( Many who call themselves "conservatives" are dedicated FOX Noise watchers, and Limbaugh listeners. It's common to hear them repeat things nearly verbatim. I occasionally read "Little Green Footballs" ... A blogger who used to be conservative, had a HUGE audience of right wingers hanging on his every word... Then he realized what a bunch of fascists they really are.
Used to be, apathy was all I ever saw from 90 percent of people around here, that is, until Obama was elected president. The unwashed masses of conservatives are hysterical "birthers", up in arms because "there's a ni66er in the White House". Know how I know this? I can hear the incessant ignorance and paranoia first hand if I leave my house and go 100 feet. Because I live in an extremely conservative area most of my life. I'm a farm girl, and was raised in the church. I'm a 10th generation American by both parents, > 40, and white. My grandfather would have voted straight Republican if Satan himself were on the ticket. At Thanksgiving, if certain family members mention the president they just say "the ni66er". My mom is a big fan of Michael Savage. (admittedly I think usually Savage tries to think clearly about things.) I come from the land of Rick Santorum. I can't speak my mind around here without having someone becoming emotional and resorting to the ultimate authority on everything, "god". I admit, despite their shortcomings, I feel for these folks whom I've known all my life. I respect that people are genuinely scared... of "stuff". )))
And in response to my post: (did this person read my post?)::
With that said, I've given equal time to Olbermann, Matthews and Maddow. I can say without a doubt that they are further from the middle than their counterparts at FOX.
My response:
((( These sources are all absolutely working partisan agendas to a degree that is desperate and sickening.)))))
And then again, did this person read my post? I can also say, unlike 56% of college students, that I don't get my news from the Daily Show and Colbert. see-- Most influencial ((((influential)))) liberal commentators #5. Jon Stewart -
And I then said: ((((((I get news from any source available, but I cross reference and confirm information. CSPAN, NPR, NBC, CNN, AP, Reuters, UPI, Al Jazeera, Huffington Post, Washington Post, New York Times, Christian Science Monitor, Wall Street Journal, BBC, Le Monde, Wired, Scientific American, The Economist, and a large variety of independent blogs and wherever tweets may lead me. I am currently a student so I enjoy access to vast resources of a major University library, and often look to confirm scientific findings with the studies. )))
And here, this person must have seen that I was a student and became totally myopic at that point:
Yes, what a surprise! The majority of college students watch a comedy show based on political satire believing it to be the news.
And I retorted:
((((Voltaire informed the French revolution in much the same way)))
And this person continued, with virtually no engagement on his end to my posts thus far, completely lost in his talking points, a one way communication here:
A talking parrot is taught to respond to an action or verbal command. You've been trained much the same way.
So, now he says I'm trained. Haha... ok, to that I respond"
((((( Please elaborate for me. Since I am clueless, and you're so enlightened, you might inform me of examples of which things command me and of which I am unaware))))
And the answer from this person was:
About those talking points:
Please read through the 300 posts, we've already covered all of your points.
or,
Go back and read through the 300 posts, we've already been over all of it.
or,
Go through the previous posts to find what you seek, grasshopper.
So, now I've been "redirected" and the conversation at hand is over? So, I come back with (((((((Out of the 300 posts, it's still not clear what there is to fear from anything being taught in schools, ultimately. I'm telling you that paranoia is what I see... I've been an authoritative parent, not an authoritarian. Public education is an indoctrination toward what ends?
I understand that some here have a very real fear of an eventual totalitarian regime working in insidious ways to overcome us. The difference between myself and those who fear the "indoctrination" they feel teachers are imposing on our youth is, that I have not forgotten that to the left is one path to totalitarian regime, while to the right is another. Both offer crackers.))))
Then his paranoia of "the left" and its terrifying influence, he comes at me with:
From what I gather, it seems many here believe this potential comes from only one direction. The left. And is using the public schools system as a front.
And I explain his bias to him: (((( You have no suspicion of the Right wing version of "polly want a cracker". Your mind is dangerously closed to this. Public schools are public. People influence them any way they might choose to do, if they participate, and check up on what is happening... But the indoctrination that I feel is dangerous is far more insidious than any education coming from our VERY PUBLIC schools... it's the one that takes place in private.... In sunday schools. In households.
What I see happening that is of concern to many who do see the whole picture, is that the path that many are headed down with the least amount of "reason" being applied leans to the political Right, "conservatism", neo-conservatism, religious indoctrination, authoritarian, patriarchical. This indoctrination is allowing the ruling class to remove rights of individuals, removing constructs of collective power, removing our choices and our autonomy, lowering our value, and our expectations for standards for ourselves.
Instead, we abide by such things as "industry standards." and maximized shareholder benefit. It's wrapped up in a warm fuzzy christian blanket, but it's tyrannical and sociopathic in its methods and goals.
Many "conservative values" will readily impose upon individual freedoms. Conservatism is in opposition of "autonomy and freedom" as much as a complete collectivism is.
One says Do as I say, not as I do. The other says do as we all must do.
It's where we continually find pleas toward "god" instead of science or reason.
It's where authoritarian say "Do as I say, not as I do. I know best!! oh, you, you're just a "grasshopper~.... trained... "
I'll take my chances with leaning toward more collective rights for human beings and democracy, localized compromises and democratic development... I don't care what David Brooks says about ours being a Republic. It seems prudent to consider the best ways to keep power to more people, not less, and civil rights rather than imposed rule.
The Right seems much more eager to sell us all out for the sociopathic interests of conglomerates in business who are obviously forming an oligarchy and driving the collective power of people off a cliff, and I hear from a lot of inadvertent spokespersons on this thread. You're indoctrinated to something like a conservatism. Fine, you want that for yourself. But isn't this about imposing it upon others? Here it is, being introduced and endorsed in this forum as "the word".
If conservativism is "correct" thinking for our nation, then ask yourself why are these conservative "leaders" so eager to facilitate industry's exploits of labor in China and other such injustices? What prevents them from doing the same here? It's impossible to argue for the morality or decency of conservative policies.
Do you denigrate groups of human beings wanting to earn a living, rather than a subsistence? Those are Unions. They're in need of an overhaul, but conservatives are on a mission to destroy them. Where does this lead? If children hear parents claiming "Union workers are bad", doesn't that indoctrinate them into an ultimate plan to exploit their labor down the road? Can you not see that?
Are you on board with a code of ethics where others laboring 60 hours for $2. pay a week is just and necessary for the "good of a few"?
People fought hard and went through hell for workers rights, for a decent future for their children. Now there is a push into the minds of Americans that workers rights are to be demonized.
It's ominous how increasingly, "conservatives" seem to seek to relate or align themselves to those with way too much power... And one has to question their motives ....
The powerful lack concern for complicit folks except for their capacity as voters... though they do often try to appease the christian right with social restrictions on freedoms, since they've thus "made" a constituency of the Christians. They say anything to get elected. They don't give a crap about social issues unless it buys them votes. They're prudish to a twisted extent, and that's marketable to the Christian constituency. Because they're so repressed, they're weird. Thus hanging at the truck stops with the glory-hole gang, and globe trotting with rent boys!))))
And that ended that. :)
No comments:
Post a Comment